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hey one question, I dont use bartermyfunds so I want to know if you required any ID to do exchanges? (maybe on bigger exchanges? ) Thanks for help in advance

dguy
Traffic Value: $15,993.01608 Canada

20 like this post 1 people

14/09/2016 15:23

Have you guys discussed/decided whether or not you are going to do something about the growing BAP issue. If you look at my pay it forward thread here you'll see that my second ad is slowly shrinking. This is not going to 'excite' members as Marc said he wanted to do.

If the BAPs were shrinking then my ads should be going in the other direction. It is not a big deal to me because I am compounding my money and should be able to climb levels, but from a marketing perspective this is not going to make people want to spend money.

We had a machine that once ate more BAPs than it produced. This was ideal. The only problem was that there were too many BAPs for the rate the machine ate them. Now we are slowly climbing back into that position again and, even with half as many people joining as before, which still is a very large number, the number of new investments is not making up for those increasing BAPs

I think it is time we stopped hoping for the flood of new members to solve our problems and fine tune the machine to once again do what it was doing before, create BAP scarcity so that the same number of dollars chase fewer BAPs and the value of the BAPs climb again

gugakip
Traffic Value: $739.34329 Belgium

2 like this post 0 people

14/09/2016 16:18

Dguy, do you have some ideas then how to decrease BAP debt?

k3ndg
Traffic Value: $968.7814 Philippines

5 like this post 1 people

14/09/2016 17:04

Remove the BAP thing and make more products that produce real profit not DEBT

dguy
Traffic Value: $15,993.01608 Canada

1 like this post 0 people

14/09/2016 17:51

As I said, what we had before was working. I'm still not sure why we changed the formula in the first place. Yes, we needed to get rid of the micro ads, but the BAP system and fees we had in place were removing BAP from the system. So the right balance was in place.

gugakip
Traffic Value: $739.34329 Belgium

1 like this post 0 people

14/09/2016 18:18

What exactly changed? The 12.000BAP minimum for marketplace or some other things as well?

druth8x
Traffic Value: $22,417.44153 United States

6 like this post 0 people

14/09/2016 18:34

What actually changed?

The fee was reduced.
Most of the activity, which is very low overall, is b/c many of us are buying/selling 1 BAP difference, can't do that with 15%. Can't even do 2 points.

BAP Gambling is less active.
I haven't looked into the overall + vs -, but I'd imagine that overall, we'd have an overall bigger House Edge, in quantity, with more activity, esp if Gamblers knew the BAP wasn't worth much, so might as well risk it.

12K min BAP trading balance.
This did have some more activity, but not that much, as if they only have that much BAP, they don't need to use it for much.

You are right in that we are not getting much for jump lvl members, via BA's. We are getting mainly just maintain lvl members. Don't blame the BAP Market btw, we might be able to double what we'd get via Ad Packs, but then we'd increase the BAP that the debt needs to spend it on, rather than decrease. Thus, as far as AD Issues, we wouldn't double our Group Ads. I'm not sure if there would even be an increase, at least noticeable.

Remember, less BAP is only one way Ad Issues grows. For instance, If your Group members as a Group increase your pot of the pie (via bigger buffers), then so do your Groups Ads. Generally speaking, on avg, we all keep about the same buffer, and on avg, the membership per Group stays relative to each other.

I repeat, we need to get advertisers who don't want BAP in return b/c they prefer the more cost effective options we have. Also, eventually, we need to be able to sell our site RP higher than we bought them.

stra
Traffic Value: $285.59089 Greece

2 like this post 0 people

14/09/2016 18:44

@dguy
"As I said, what we had before was working."

Yes it was working, but circumstances were different.
With almost no ad issues, BAP price was a lot cheaper.
Just think that BAP market was about 50-80 (about 5 times higher than now, and that was after the announcement for ad issues, before that it was over 100) so the fees in total were higher.
The smaller the value, the more BAPs are erased by the system everyday.

What i am afraid of now is
- BAP start losing its value again (due to smaller ad issues)
- and on top of that, RPs continue on their long time downtrend (with many short-mid term uptrend spikes).

If so, we may find ourselves with money, but there will be nothing attractive enough for us to invest.

Axiantor
Traffic Value: $14,813.95087 Portugal

2 like this post 0 people

14/09/2016 20:48

I remember before the reset we had 5million BAP daily clearance just on the BAP fee. Did we lost that many active users?

unthink
Traffic Value: $9,606.72522 Portugal

2 like this post 1 people

14/09/2016 21:09

That new rule of 14day no BAP tax fcked it up.

druth8x
Traffic Value: $22,417.44153 United States

1 like this post 0 people

14/09/2016 21:32

NO.

That's right, I forgot about that change.
We have the BAP free TAX if you bought a BA in the past 14 days.

What I wonder is just how many BA's are bought, like me, where it is just one every 14 days (which really is not what it is designed for aka just the bare min is not enough) vs those that buy regardless (so it's just an added benefit, they may not even notice) vs those that do notice and buy multiple more often (the core group we are targeting with this change).

If there is minimal change in BA's bought, esp if it's just via the minimalists like me, I say get rid of the tax exemption. Personally, I wish we didn't have to rely on taxes to help us out. In the future, we can look back to that and remove it all together, but we aren't in that health right now.

I wonder if what we should do instead is give the "free BAP" of the AA slots for more what we expect them to cost vs sell for, ofc as close as we can, with minimal Admin updating. Meaning, if we pretend that we get 30K views, and the Spot costs $10, then for that BAP spot, we'd get 1 BAP, instead of 25 BAP. On top of that, for the total of the 8 slots, we charge a fee of half that, unless you bought a BA recently.

WOW, even if Paidverts uses the BAP Market at $0.0033 / 12 BAP, there is very minimal profit at 1 BAP for an AA slot. $5 would be a loss. OFc b4 the approx 50% fee (or 25% that are charged) Thus, we are giving out way too much BAP vs how cheap the slots are selling for.

The trouble now is, would we drop too many AA clickers, if all they got was 1 BAP (8BAP total) and then charged 4BAP, if they haven't bought a BA recently? Should we want to be giving out so much BAP that we don't have backed up with funds, all to appease advertisers who are not even giving us $100 per day?

2.4-2.8MIL BAP is given out for free, per day, after BAP Tax is considered. That is not nothing, in fact, on avg, we'd actually be dropping how much BAP we had in the system, if all that changed was that net gain for members as a whole dropped even 50%, let alone 96%, as 25 to 1 BAP might suggest.

MarcdeKoning - Administrator
Traffic Value: $468,983.12758 Netherlands

15 like this post 0 people

14/09/2016 22:11

The 14 day no bap tax-rule creates just a 200-300k/day difference.

slosumo - Administrator
Traffic Value: $28,438.4426 Slovenia

28 like this post 0 people

14/09/2016 22:22

^^ And we will have a first detailed PV BAP health report ready to post tomorrow, to give you all a better outlook on how the BAP debt is in a much better state than many of you seem to think it is in.

Issaro
Traffic Value: $3,448.12527 Turkey

3 like this post 0 people

14/09/2016 22:33

How about a little tweak to the no bap tax advantage? Instead of lifting the tax for 14 days, let's give extra 100 Baps, which will create 4 additional fixed ad spots to sell

unthink
Traffic Value: $9,606.72522 Portugal

2 like this post 1 people

14/09/2016 22:53

@Issaro

That would be good and also reducing the time to 8 days no BAP tax, 14 days is too much i think.

druth8x
Traffic Value: $22,417.44153 United States

2 like this post 1 people

14/09/2016 23:11

"The 14 day no bap tax-rule creates just a 200-300k/day difference."

How is that?

B4 that exception was in place, BAP acquired via AA as ~BAP taxed via that 100 BAP tax. In fact, most often there was more TAX than there was free.
Now, there is a 2.4-2.8MIL difference btwn the 2.

Here is Today's stats:
Activation Ads, BAP Issued: 5869200
Daily BAP Tax, BAP Consumed: 3454465

AA - TAX = 2,414,735

How is that "just 200,000 - 300,000"?

If you mean 2-3mil (and are using a different counting system), well 2-3mil is more than we gain each day on avg in overall Total BAP "debt".

I'm glad we the users will get to see the PV Health Report.

Shumy
Traffic Value: $1,087.93992 Croatia (LOCAL Name: Hrvatska)

2 like this post 0 people

14/09/2016 23:34

please make reports, and finish this caculating...soooo boring...

carvalho17
Traffic Value: $28.3459 Brazil

1 like this post 0 people

15/09/2016 01:27

@druth8x

Activation Ads, BAP Issued: 5869200
Daily BAP Tax, BAP Consumed: 3454465

Don't forget activation ads have a potential of AT LEAST double the daily bap tax (not counting x16 ads to new accounts). It means if everyone clicks 8 ads x 25 baps and get taxed 100, they get 100 free.

Looking at last days stats, PV might have about 29-35k active members.
29000 click all the 8 ads (200 baps)
~34500 members get taxed 100 baps.

If 34500 members got 100 baps taxed, if they all had clicked their 8 ads, the potential difference would be of 3.4mil. Today it was 2.4 mil.

If you see all the system, like group ads (expected purchases to mantain group)/new purchases, you would come close to 3-4k unique members buying a BA twice a month.
It is obvious inaccurate, there are a thousand things to consider: like i said about expected purchases to mantain group, outside money to buy BA, RPs sold to buy BA, new accounts clicking 16 ads, people who just click 1 ad each week, etc. But you can have an ideia of the 14 days-rule impact, and that's less than 10% of total difference.

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