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Issues and explorations

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MisterGreen Traffic Value: $22,303.8091 Netherlands 6 like this post 1 people 30/07/2014 13:09 In this topic I summarize some issues and explorations regarding the development of MTV that came up after a useful brainstorming session regarding my quest for a livelihood(see topic: http://www.mytrafficvalue.com/forum/questions/living_off_of_mtvpv_longread/1.html ). The outcome can be divided into two main topics: I – Resistance many potentially big investors could experience Now by 'big investor' I also cover 'subjectively big', i.e, someone investing $200 while his total net worth is $500. and II – Presenting some ideas regarding the direction of MTV So back to I. What stops somebody from investing? I think it's important to not only present an investor with financial transparency, which is one of the great features of MTV, but also with more information regarding the market MTV's tapping into. What are these markets exactly and what are its trends? How does MTV plan on conquering these? Next to this are some legal issues that came up. Does MTV play taxes? If this has been laid out before I'm sure it's good to refresh our memories while informing new members. In addition Dguy brought up the worrying matter that whenever MTV becomes an even bigger success than it is now, governments may shut it down because of reasons I can't fathom. This looming threat is surely a huge roadblock for mr. Millionaire with a few ten thousands to spare, or to Jan Janssen and his $5. Regarding PV, I've also found the issue of increasing BAP-debt to be hard to understand. The 55% ROI on buying advertisements keeps increasing the BAP-debt of PV, to a point where it can't deliver enough paid ads for its members or reduce the value of the ads dramatically. Lets call this the 'hypothetical point of collapse'. According to Earnforthat this hypothetical point of collapse doesn't exist because there will always be a demand for advertisement. Time for II. I would like to present the Warren Buffet Challenge to Jo. Imagine Warren Buffet putting $5 million into the FT250% plan. This frees up an additional $3250000 for portfolio development. How shall this daunting amount be used? The challenge points to a point of further improvement of MTV that isn't technical in nature. Namely the creation of a separate page that explains the mission, vision and long term strategy of MTV. What's the big idea, literally? If this is expounded in readable prose, sounding serious yet accessible, innovative yet plausible and inspirational then it melts away some more resistance(I+II are entangled here). I would also like to mention here that some more easy to understand prose about the mechanics of MTV and PV and their collaboration is required. How do they work? What do they do? What's a debt swap, how nigh is it, what does it mean for your $10? Now to be fair, regarding the mechanics of MTV you can get quite far with reading the FAQ, but the FAQ is somewhat hidden away, that's why I opt for a separate page that's more salient. Plus about a bigger mission, vision and long term strategy there's nothing to be found as of yet. The 'About Us' section is empty. Next, I think that one of MTV's edges could be the collaboration between different sites. When the online gambling platform MoneyMyGame(MMG) is up, people can use money from the FT plans and gamble with it, or use gamble winnings to buy advertisements at PV, and use advertisement income to buy shares etc.. This, I think, is very attractive and unprecedented. It's already the case now but it would be a great idea to capitalize on it. Lastly, I think emphasizing the community aspect of MTV a bit more is a good idea. That we help each other, that people who read the forums have an advantage and learn, should I think become a part of MTV's 'About Us'. This should all be supported by a chatroom. Finally, I think I could help MTV when it comes to the textual and explanation bits. Perhaps I can do some freelance work. Hopefully Jo can give this topic a read. Cheers, MisterGreen Jo Traffic Value: $8,649,585.93592 Spain 8 like this post 2 people 30/07/2014 13:22 I'll answer the Warren Buffet part first... But $3m dev funding; we'd likely use 1/3 of that to hire 10 or so world class developers / programmers. And really get this website working to it's utmost potential. And obviously keep pumping out new features, games and subsiduary sites. The ideas for those can be generated quickly; but right now - there's little point in thinking about them; as we have absolutely no programming time to develop anything new. But $3m of dev funding is nothing; it'd be consumed incredibly quickly... We could easily invest a few million purely building out PaidVerts. There's a lot of potential with this business, and investing a few million to get it up to speed wouldn't be bad idea. There's also an unlimited number of physical world ventures MTV could invovle itself in as the funding accumulates.... We could also buyback a bunch of our shares, as a mechanism for growing PV and just generally pushing the whole MTV economy forwards. Too much money is not the issue right now... We have huge growth potential; and anything up to a $10m dev funding budget would be real useful at this point. --- And your points about legal etc, all are solved via development funding. Money is the solution to just about everything in the business world. MisterGreen Traffic Value: $22,303.8091 Netherlands 2 like this post 0 people 31/07/2014 10:03 Thanks Jo. Very glad to see you're thinking so big! That's awesome. That alone makes me enthusiastic. In time I would love these steps to be described more concretely as well as getting a firm grasp on the idea of the long-term strategy. It's like were seeing shadows now, of something great. Some more about PV: I see many members rioting right now because of the removal of the milestones.  At the daily news topic I also caught your response about why PV isn't collapsing under its own growth. Bottomline: It's basically because MTV's 250% FT plan create an influx of money, plus the sale of its shares will yield so much money that all the debt is cleared. However doesn't that only make the debt-burden of MTV itself bigger and bigger ? Can MTV carry that ? What's the real monetary value PV adds as an income to MTV or is it a drain ? I mean, MTV has the games as a real income source, the fees, the banners etc.. so that's clear. Sorry to keep bugging you but I think the clearer things are the better and the more inclined someone is to invest. Good luck with riot control ! @Colasander Mind telling me why you disagree? I'm curious about your input since you're one of the larger ones. Cheers and have a good one, MisterGreen dan1989 Traffic Value: $76,730.43625 Portugal 9 like this post 0 people 31/07/2014 10:22 Hi MisterGreen, you have the same concerns as I do about MTV debt.   I will use this topic to also put some of my concerns about MTV/PV:   What I’m about to say, has been bugging my head for a while, and I would like some clarifications.   Besides the physical scale-up problems that PaidVerts has/is dealing with, I think there is another type of scale-up problems. Problem 1: For example, if a lot of people hit the 1.5m-3m BAP group, that means that the earnings would have to be divided between all users in that group, which would lead to a decrease in earnings for all users. For example, Bopyer, was the only one in the +20mil BAP group and on the 2[sup]nd[/sup] biggest ad issue he received $700. Then on the biggest ad issue where there where 2 more people in that group each one received $665. So as you can see there was a decrease per user earnings due to more people reached that group. I also experienced this. When I hit the 1.5m-3m BAP group (in May) I’ve earned +$10 everyday. I think the “worst” day I’ve earned $8. Now that there are more people in this group, I’ve seen a decrease in earnings. The “worst” day so far in this group was around $2. So as you can see there has been a decrease per user earnings due to more people hitting those BAP groups. In my opinion this is going to be a problem as PV grows and more people achieve BAP groups.   Problem 2 – The “lag issue”: Lets say that PV has right now 100 users and that PV sold $1000 ads today. $500 out of $1000 will be invested into the 250% plan. Once it gets fast tracked (takes 5-7 months to get fast tracked according to the results and this is why I call it the lag issue) the $1250 will not be divided between the initial 100 users. Instead, it will be dived between the 100 users + all of the other users that came in the meantime. Lets say that in those 5-7 months, the number of users increased 10 more times (1000 users). So once those $500 gets fast tracked, the $1250 will be distributed between 1000 users and just like the example above, since there are more users, it is going to dilute earnings to all users.   Problem 3: Finally, PV needs to invest 50% in the 250% plan (or shares, but I’m sticking with the 250% plan) of all ads sold to repay everyone. PV is a “pure” revenue maker by the upgrades (recycled and 1% upgrade), filter, vacation mode, more banners impressions, cashier fees and by the 10% of all ads sell.  But PV is also a debt maker! Since it invests 50% of all ads sold in the 250% plan, PV is a debt maker. And I think that it is more a debt maker then a revenue maker! In 3 months PV sold $300k ads = $3333 per day. So PV needs to invest $1666 in the 250% plan per day to repay everyone (I know that Jo also invest in shares, but as I said above I’m just sticking to the 250% plan). So it creates $4165 ($1666*2.5=$4165) of debt per day! And as we scale-up is going to create more and more debt. Lets imagine that PV triple the amount of the ads sold (=$10k per day). Again PV needs to invest 50% of $10k in the plan to repay everyone =$5k per day=$12.5k of debt per day!!!. The “pure” revenue makers that I said above, can’t follow debt (at least right now).   Lets go to facts. PV sold $300k in 3 months, so if Jo invested all of the 50% in the 250% plan that would create $375k of debt. According to the portfolio, PV made $50k of revenues in 3 months, so PV creates 7,5x more debt than revenues (375k/50k=7,5x). I don't know the statistics for the BAP games and recycled ads for the first 3 months, which are debt BAP removers. Jo needs to create a Big revenue product ASAP just to follow debt that PV creates. And this product can’t be like PV that invests some money in MTV. It has be an independently product. There is of almost 500k of debt right now, and if PV really explodes, debt will also explode!!! So what do you say about this Jo and all of the other usres? I would like your feedbak. hrjustinptc - Forum moderator Traffic Value: $8,376.82638 United States 0 like this post 0 people 31/07/2014 23:55 I think that once PV is fully constructed the targeted and cheap traffic will really help reduce debt. I am curious to know roughly the numbers of how much debt PV has created.   What it would take to consume all active BAP? Jo would it be to much to ask for you to post a rough dollar value? Anything that goes into and out of MTV is easier to keep track of. I feel like some of the statistics needed to see the whole picture are missing from that page on PaidVerts.  Another issue now is also catching up on the backlog of undelivered clicks and 728x90 banner impressions. morlor Traffic Value: $1,412.85036 New Zealand 1 like this post 0 people 01/08/2014 04:33 well - dan1989 - after reading your thread - sounds as tho we could be in 'dodo street' without a shovel hahaha! slosumo - Administrator Traffic Value: $28,438.4426 Slovenia 2 like this post 0 people 01/08/2014 06:53 @justin By now there has been 2021998266 BAP (Equal to 1,010,999$) awarded via purchases, activation ads and milestones. 911485088( BAP was consumed via ad deliveries (recycled ads are counter here too), BAP tax and I'd estimate about 80-90$K(lets say 86k$ via BAP games(an estimate based on the last report of 60-70$K a few weeks ago), so a total of about 1081485088 BAP(equal to 540742$) has been consumed. Assuming that BAP tax & recycling & games between them clear about 20% of debt, that means that of the remaining 470257$ required to repay all BAP via ad clicks, only about 376205$ would be required. So there you have it, that is the current debt PV has. hrjustinptc - Forum moderator Traffic Value: $8,376.82638 United States 1 like this post 0 people 01/08/2014 07:22 Yeah that seems about right I came up with around 471k when I estimated it. I think it would be cool if the statistics page was more like the results on MTV. Just an easier visual to see how much BAP is issued vs consumed on a given day. I am excited to see the full product lineup on PaidVerts. When more advertising options are available that only consume BAP instead of creating it debt will be gone. I know that PaidVerts will actually profit on its own on top of all BAP issued. That will be the time to reintroduce milestones! slosumo - Administrator Traffic Value: $28,438.4426 Slovenia 6 like this post 0 people 01/08/2014 14:22 If anyone's willing to read through this wall of text, here's my take on Dan's questions which I sent to him a few days ago: Dan's asked me those questions a few days ago, so I'd like to share my thoughts/view of it: Problem 1.) The example with Bopyer you gave was actually out of balance the first time ( compared to other BAP groups), then when another person join the group Jo cut their results a bit so he could pay more to other groups. But it was just a fraction less compared to others. Moreover, everytime the number of users in a group changes, the results are usually skewed a few days as Jo doesn't adjust the numbers every day. At the beginning he wasn't changing the numbers for ~2 weeks and I remember 3mil+ BAP group was earning 3-4x times less compared to 360k BAP group for almost a week. But now he seems to adjust the numbers at least a few times a week so it all balances out. The poor results last few weeks have nothing to do with more users being in a certain group, it's just that the revenues/investments were poor during the attacks, but it's now starting to straighten itself out. Also you might have noticed that PV hasn't sold many shares as quite a few people are undercutting it, but again, once they're out of the way PV will be selling shares again and there will be more money available for ad issues. So bottom line is the number of users in a certain group won't mean that the earnings for any group will decrease as the numbers are adjusted accordingly by Jo a few times a week. The more people that climb the BAP group means that they will have to invest more to get there, giving out revenues/money for PV to be able to buy up it's own shares/investments to mature and that in turn will give more money to pay out on ad issues. But if you assumed that the "ad pool" remained the same and the amount of users grew then yes, naturally everyone would earn less. But that is not the case. The more users that join the more money comes into the system and I don't see PV slowing down significantly for at least a few more months. There's just so much money/users around that will bring fresh funds in. Problem 2.) Again you're assuming that the revenues will remain the same if more people joined. You have to take into account that these new people will also invest and thus speeding up the prior fast tracks. Sure, when the fast tracks from the first users mature(even if it's faster) they will be divided between more users than just themselves.  BUT they will also get the earnings from future fast tracks that future users "funded/invested". And this goes on and on and on( perhaps not exactly fully consistent, but slightly falling as users perhaps start to outpace investments) until new money stops coming in.  At the point where this begins to happen PV wouldn't be able to "keep up" on it's own anymore. And this is where the whole idea of MTV comes in -> using new debt to create new products to repay investors. Perhaps it will be 6 months or a year before MTV launches another big product that will help fuel PV by its direct revenues to MTV, but it will eventually happen. And I think that for at least a few more months PV's own growth can keep the earnings high enough any everyone happy. These last 2 weeks were annoying, but I'm sure things will start picking up again from where they stopped. There's just so much more potential users/money out there for this PTC model that I can't see it stopping any time soon. Call me nuts but I can easily see 1mil users by the end of the year. And with that of course huge "debt", but also tons more money to help repay it! Also, bit randomly inserted -> the majority of users are currently from PTCs and not used to investing. But I think that will slowly start to change and once these users are in for a few months and become comfortable they will start to invest not only in PV but also MTV slowly. And all those inactive users will see PV growing after they've already quit and will want to check back themselves. So while PV will eventually have to be fueled by new users/products I think there is huge reserve in the old users who are just testing(and draining the system in a way)  and are yet to start fully participating in PV/MTV. slosumo - Administrator Traffic Value: $28,438.4426 Slovenia 6 like this post 0 people 01/08/2014 14:22 Lol too much text for 1 post, sorry Problem 3.) I don't know why you pointed out PV specifically as it's account on MTV is no different than any other investor. It's basically a big MTV investor, so I'll just simply this and speak about investments -> debt in general via FT plans.   Why is everyone so afraid of debt? This to me is the most amazing thing about MTV's model. It's not a fixed program where debt would eventually kill it, but it's model allows it to use sudden rise of debt to it's advantage. Let's say that our current portfolio can produce a steady 3k$/day in revenues and has 400$k of debt, which would take around 130 days to pay of. Now imagine someone invested 1$mil tomorrow, which would bring the debt up to 2.9$mil. I'll neglect the fact that this would instantly repay 150$k worth of debt and the confidence boost it would give, which would suddenly spark interest from all other investors etc., but as I said, let's neglect that. We'd still have the same portfolio that would be paying 3k$/day and suddenly the FT queue would rise from 130 days to ~960 days! This huge debt has pretty much killed the program, right? Sure, if the portfolio wouldn't be expanded, but we just got 650k$ worth of dev funds! And those funds could take MTV to the next level as Jo often keeps saying. Look what 80$k worth of funding for paidverts did(and the potential of PV can easily 10x fold still). It skyrocketed the revenues and attracted such a crowd. Imagine what 650k$ could do. MoneyMyGame, programming business, new games, etc. could all take off within 6-12 months. Sure it would take a while to build these products so they could create revenues but once they'd be completed MTV's revenues would skyrocket, chopping down the FT ETA and again become attractive to new investors. And remember that I didn't take into account that such an investment would give MTV users huge confidence boost and they would all start buying more shares, investing more etc., speeding up the process. And given a more steady and realistic example with PV's consistent investments that debt is even easier to handle, as you don't practically start from zero (like in the example above where the FT ETA almost 10x folded), but can build new products gradually, which doesn't have an intimidating effect of suddenly seeing a 900 days queue. You talk about "pure revenue makers" falling behind but again you're not taking into account the growth in these pure revenues when more would be invested and more users generating pure revenues not to mention how new products/"pure revenue makers" will be added to MTV/PV throughout the process. And again you're equating PaidVerts and paidverts account on MTV. PaidVerts IS a pure revenue maker, while paidverts is just a user on MTV that keeps investing(and uses it's profits to pay users of PaidVerts). So you can't look at the debt paidverts creates to be paid off just by PaidVerts' revenues. It's like saying that user X invested 50k$ now HE has to pay for the 125k$ debt he created. That wouldn't work now would it Again, the growth/debt that is created spurs some movement in MTV that will help repay it faster. More confidence -> more users & investors -> more "pure revenue" products -> faster repayment times etc. Actually you can't make a simple scheme of the things in motion here, as everything helps(and advances), well ... everything. But yes, new products definitely have to be created that help out so not everything has to rely on growth/new products. But then again, that is the idea of MTV. It will always create new products to help repay past, current and future investors. It's unrealistic to think that it will keep this insane FT ETA of under a year forever but I'm sure it will be kept under that at least until the end of this year. And then onwards even if it would get to 2-5years it would still be formidable by "realistic" standards. About debt swaps... They are the reason why MTV is where it currently is. Without them the repayment times would be super high by now. Debt swaps create a new opportunity, a fresh start with 0 debt (or perhaps only partial debt might be an option in the future) but stronger foundation than ever. And the new lower repayment times and stronger portfolio make MTV much more desirable to invest in. Why would MTV/PV go down if another debt swap happen? Did it go down the first two times? Well, technically yes as people didn't understand it and panicked but after that things started picking up and now all prior investments are paid off fully. They worked out great, they did their purpose. And I see no reason why the same wouldn't happen again if there would be a need to do one. Sure PV's investments would turn into shares, which would then have to wait a few months for the shares to rise to a price that would be equal to investments maturing. Which might be difficult if the shares' price would plummit right after a debt swap as it did in the previous ones, but there's one HUGE difference why I think that wouldn't happen. Sure the price would still drop but most likely the price would remain about the same as it was before a debt swap so it wouldn't change much other than converting FT queue into shares. Why? Because the first two times shares were much more spread out across hundreds of users, who didn't understand the swap and all sold the shares. But now, pretty much all the shares are in the hands of 10 people who have been through the swaps, know how they work and wouldn't panic as (mostly) the Spanish  investors who didn't quite understand what was going on, and hence wouldn't let the price drop as much. Well some of them would probably manipulate the drop so they could buy a lot of shares cheaply, but I doubt they would actually sell most of their shares for dirt cheap. In conclusion, MTV's model is made to deal with these kind of issues by it's nature. More users, more products, lower repayment times, boost in confidence, more debt, more investments etc. are all connected and they all can scale with each other quite a bit. Sudden rises in debt can make a temporary "stall", but once the "debt" is converted to new profitable products it's all good again. And with reliable programmers and more stable system(support staff, licences etc.) I think that will become even more easily achievable. There definitely is a cap to this growth and what it can achieve, before things become really stagnant, but I think that cap is so high that it's quite a few years from us ( I can see the potential of billions of turnover here). Even if we "only" hit the turnover in the tens of millions that can be a year away at least(probably less imo), I don't think there's fear of any stagnation or a debt swap for a nice while longer(and again, debt swaps are no evil bad thing!). hrjustinptc - Forum moderator Traffic Value: $8,376.82638 United States 4 like this post 0 people 01/08/2014 15:11 I still feel like PV has the potential to attract some very serious advertisers for just the targeted ads. I am sure that once PV is a proven model the advertising will provide real results. Big advertisers might not want to click ads on PV or build BAP. They just want to target super high quality traffic prospects. But yeah a good majority will just advertise for the BAP gain and eventually cash gain. There are many ways that PaidVerts can sustain itself without needing MTV.  MisterGreen Traffic Value: $22,303.8091 Netherlands 5 like this post 0 people 01/08/2014 17:32 Guys thanks for the wall of texts, I love reading and will plough through this weekend and come up with some feedback and questions. Now it's time for a beer, however !  MisterGreen Traffic Value: $22,303.8091 Netherlands 1 like this post 0 people 02/08/2014 09:38 Alright, here we go:  Summary of problems1&2 by Dan1989 about BAP-groups and increasing amount of users;  This issue will increase as the system gets under more and more pressure. New influx of money via investments doesn't cover the 55%ROI on previous users' investments, even with the FT250% plan backing it up. I think Slosumo's answer really covers it. However I think we ARE right in seeing arise an amount of debt that is unmanageable. That's why Jo recently increased BAP-tax and removed the PV account milestones. So we're on to something, despite Slosumo being right. The truth lies in the middle.  Jo has also stated in a recent daily news item that he wants PV to be a revenue maker, not a debt maker, so he's on the same page as us. We shall see whether his current measures are enough to keep the debt under control. Here's a general question I got from Dan1989's post:  So do I grasp it correctly that 50% of PV's $ is put into the FT250% plan and/or shares, and 50% becomes the daily ad issue? Also, are these PV's real revenue makers,i.e, elements that reduce BAP-debt? *Upgrades *Filter *Vacation Mode *More banner impressions *Cashier fees *10% of sold investments *BAP-games *BAP-tax Back to Slosumo's answers to Dan1989's post: It's a good approach to view PV as an investor, makes things easier to understand. From that perspective PV's indeed a revenue maker because it gives tons of development money via the FT250% plan. I know why Dan and me and probably many others were viewing PV as something else than just another big investor; because we thought it was a pure revenue maker and on the face of it it did seem to be the case. Turns out things are slightly more complex and from your new perspective it is a revenue maker anyway. Anyhow it seems that PV and MTV collaborate in a very intricate way, look at this 'causal circle';  PV buying up shares and then;increasing their value and then;selling them in portions to clear its debt and then;people become enthusiastic because of no debt and reinvest and then;PV has new $$ to buy shares again, this time at the higher and scaled value, or lower because people panicked after the swap, which is good when buying up However I do feel that this sort of scaling can only really work if these mechanics are backed up by more and more revenue makers. We all agree on this point so that's set. Finally Jo's posts about scaling start to make more sense. I mean this one: 'A big opportunity' it was called, can't seem to find it anymore. Furthermore, Slosumo, do I understand correctly that you are saying that new investments of new members will almost entirely cover the growth of the people in the different BAP-groups? Now, about de debt swaps; I am not sceptical here. Been through two and saw good things happen. The only downside I can think of is that people are fed so much shares via these swaps that the demand for them automatically withers away for quite a while. Remember the share price really rose only after PV started buying them up like a maniac. Now I see with this it is as it were funding its own future debt clearance. In general, thanks for the lucid and optimistic account of MTV's processes of development. Now a version of this and more and broader and even more easy to understand has to be added to the 'About Us' page I would urge. I think for the sake of investors such an 'impossible scheme', that is, a scheme that does try to capture all the ways the different parts of MTV and PV influence each other, must be attempted to be made anyway. The more you know, the easier ánd the better you invest. One more word about shares: Shares are largely the perceived value of the business, is that so? There's a dividend backup, which is great, but that's not the main reason for investing in them I suspect. Now the perceived value of a business is increased, I believe, by better explanations. Look how much effort it cost us to get to grips with a rather complex system and unorthodox business model. It should be easier for new investors checking MTV and PV out, much easier. It's the craziest and most imaginative business model that I've come across. I'm sticking to MTV Finally a question about long-term sustainability that you alluded to in your post as well: What do mean with caps on growth? Can't MTV keep 'triple jumping' into infinity? I'm referring to the point of stagnation you mentioned. Have a good one! And thanks a lot! Cheers, MisterGreen Oh and PS: HrjustinPTC:  PV itself is a huge traffic nexus and thus attractive to advertisers. So does PV receive 'non-debt-revenue' via these ad placements? I mean, are people advertising on PV itself without receicing BAP? hrjustinptc - Forum moderator Traffic Value: $8,376.82638 United States 1 like this post 0 people 02/08/2014 17:45 Extra banner impressions on a campaign is advertising without getting BAP. That is just one small function now(there was a bug that issued BAP but its fixed now). All purchases for targeted ads and cheap traffic once built will be BAP free. So every single purchase of those two types of campaigns will consume massive amounts of BAP while creating zero BAP.  I have some other quick suggestions I would like to post and I will just put them here in this thread. I think that the main focus should be on PaidVerts traffic delivery. Right now there is a huge backlog of hits that need to be delivered. The efficiency of traffic delivery needs to be increased to be a competitive advertising platform. PaidVerts is not and should not be seen as an investment site with a glorified PTC. It needs to first and foremost be a Paid To Click website.  In all honesty the first ad packages created should have been targeted and cheap traffic. This would have forced all advertisers to buy traffic without creating BAP. The only BAP given would have been through activation ads. With that said all BAP would have been consumed nearly instantly. There would be absolutely no BAP debt but growth would have been much slower. Anyways its to late for that now just to be clear Paidverts should have started out more as a traditional PTC. Instead it was started with the "revshare investment potential profit" as the main aspect focused upon.  Obviously the revshare "build BAP profit quickly" is much more appealing promotional wise. It is definitely never to late to transition that way. We just need to play catch up with this debt that the amazing growth and compounding has created so quickly.  I have an idea to make each of the different ad issues easier to understand. Each type of ad delivered should have its own unique icon. Then place a small legend just below the main menu navigation bar denoting what each one means. Here is a quick example with some ideas for new icons to mark ads that do not have icons.  *new* Green 1% image = 1% ads for 10 days from purchased ad packs.  *new* letter D in circle = Daily ads issued according to the BAP groups *new* letter R in circle = random ads usually really small value that are used to deliver clicks.  Recycle symbol = Recycled ads white 1% in circle = super user 1% ads(possibly split this into two variations to distinguish mini/mega) That is a rough idea anyways so far to get the idea anyways. If I missed any or if anyone has other ideas on this mention it in your post. I hope to hear from Jo about this point more then anything else here. I know this has been brought up and dismissed before but I think it is very important issue. For serious advertisers they want as many unique users as possible viewing their ads. I do not think that it is right for a campaign to receive 50% or more of the clicks from a single user. There are more then enough users to issue ads more randomly. I can understand getting a few duplicates from recycles. The micro ad packs deliver way to many of the same ads from the campaigns to single users. I am not sure how the BAP ads relate to traffic delivery. I believe that they should consume traffic if clicked if they do not already and they should also be more randomly delivered.  I know Jo is super busy dealing with everything 24/7/365. It does seem like the past few day to about a week or so have had minimal and sudden unsettling decisions. I really hope to see Jo back to his old self posting on more threads. Even if there wasn't much happening it seemed like there was much more detail in the daily news.  MisterGreen Traffic Value: $22,303.8091 Netherlands 1 like this post 0 people 04/08/2014 13:41 @hrjustinptc,  That's great. PV's huge amount of traffic can via the banners be monetized.  slosumo - Administrator Traffic Value: $28,438.4426 Slovenia 1 like this post 0 people 04/08/2014 18:17 @MG Sorry for the late response but hectic the last few days around here :/ To answer your two questions shortly: 1.) Yes I think that in majority new (mainly from new users) ad purchases would cover the most of the growth. Take this simple example: User buys 1000$ worth of ads: 30% of this is used for 1% and daily ad issues 50% of this is used to invest in MTV which in turn creates an additional 15% pure revenues 10% is used for pure MTV revenue So immediately 55%(30%+15%+10%) of the 155% debt is covered. Also assuming that PV is currently responsible for ~30% of investments the instant 25% revenues(15% + 10%) would result in ~8% additionally paying off the debt. So in total 40%(63%/155%) of PV's debt is immediately paid off just by the purchase of ad packs. And this is COMPLETELY without any other growth/revenues, just basically PV paying "its own" debt with ad purchases. When you take into account the growing memberbase & purchase, which subsequently result in PV's "other parts of its investments" being paid of faster this easily leads to 50%+ of its debt being paid off by itself. Alright, I know that was super complicated and probably doesn't make much sense to most of you, but I've been super busy so I know I'm not explaining things in the most simple way right now. But it all makes sense in my head, just can't put it out to you nicely 2.) The cap I mentioned would be in billions. What I mean by that is assuming that MTV becomes the next Google/Apple/MS. Once it gets to that level then you wouldn't be able to sustain the growth/fast tracks at the current "unrealistic" levels of 250% within a year as once you get to say to 100$bil turnover it's much harder to ie. double that than double 1$mil turnover. Again I'm probably not making much sense, but think of it as a skewed logarithmic curve -> It can be pretty much linear (revenues/debt) at start(up to this cap) then it starts to level up and the ETA's would become 1,2,5,years, which is still realistically amazing for a 250% return. I hope I managed to explain what  I was thinking, but I completely get you if I didn't as I'm burned out and not the best at explaining right now Thuru Traffic Value: $1,909.96027 Netherlands 0 like this post 0 people 04/08/2014 20:29 @slosumo People, many people see PV also as a sort of invest. They can play equal after arround 5 months and after that is netto earning. This is exclusiv the refs what someone have. Thats a bonus. Yes i have shares, but not in mtv or PV, i have that elsewhere nd i dont sell my shares there, but did paid a part of my invest on PV from it (from the dividend). So earning money from PV works fine and great. And again, i do not click low ads because lack of time, having 20-40 ads is more than enough. I have a filter. Other people can do the low ones if they wish. MisterGreen Traffic Value: $22,303.8091 Netherlands 0 like this post 0 people 05/08/2014 06:49 @hrjustinptc,  Now I'm curious how much $$ PV is currently making with selling these banners. Any information on that? In the daily results report there are these banner auctions but these apply to MTV only. @Slosumo, No worries 'bout not replying earlier . Lets see whether I can 'make chocolate' of it (Dutch saying; meaning: can I understand it?) 50% of the $1000 is put into MTV into the FT250% plan and shares, right ? For simplicity, just the FT250% plan. In that case it would yield $1250. That's 25% of revenue if I'm not mistaken, not 15% ? 30% is used to reduce BAP debt immediately, got that. 10% is pure revenue for MTV, thus contributing to overall debt reduction, okay. Then, indeed, the user himself receives $1550 worth of BAP that he shall consume over time. Now I lose you with the further steps, the assumption bit ? Why does that assumption make sense and why does it end up with 8% of additional debt reduction. Regarding the caps: I can see that, yeah. The more I know about MTV, the more I understand it's a company in its infancy still. We're really just at the beginning. hrjustinptc - Forum moderator Traffic Value: $8,376.82638 United States 1 like this post 0 people 05/08/2014 07:24 There is an image on the Aug 4th news that shows the banner impressions have earned $5518.85 so far. That is quite a bit for just a quick little addition to the existing campaign purchases.  MisterGreen Traffic Value: $22,303.8091 Netherlands 0 like this post 0 people 05/08/2014 09:56 @HrjustinPTC,  Ah yes, I've seen it now. That's indeed really good money ! Nice ! This will be PV's inroad to money making.