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@stark100 unfortunately that was not part of this update, we'll be focusing the next week on bugfixes/improvements at the rest of the game, where we'll also look in the way we handle time and off-focus, and see if we can improve that.

slosumo - Administrator
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22/06/2018 07:50

@druth Thanks for the questions, I'm first answering those that I also won't to copy to our thread on reddit(if you don't mind!) as they're questions many people will likely want to ask!

"Can you reexplain Competition Country Weekly Rewards?"
I still owe a proper look into this to ensure there is not some potential issue with how things are displayed. Now that CHQ is out, a week will be focused on improvements and bugfixes. So stay tuned for news on this.

"Regarding the Country HQ (actually you changed CI a bit as well)."

"1. Is my CF supposed to be way lower?"
Yes, it works differently now as mentioned in the "sneak peak info posts" about the rework. Scaling it off DPC as before, was making it impossible to create an experience with CI that is interesting, fun and rewarding to every users, but also makes sense within a country battle! Before 90% of damage was done by one or two players within a country, making everyone pretty much useless and it WASN'T a team effort as it's supposed to be. What is more, the rewards for these top players were negligible at later stages, and on the contrary WAY too huge for new members. As such it ruined the experience and progression for all players.

CI is meant to be a group effort where whole country is required to collaborate to "defeat a base (per day)". We also want to give the feeling that EVERYONE is contributing, and as such relative difference in power between weakest players and strongest player can't be "10^30" but a max of perhaps a few 10x to still convey that experience and make EVERY players' attacks meaningful. What IS important for ALL players, is that REWARDS are ALWAYS meaningful - which via the spoil system they now are.

"3. I bet I'll get this answer soon enough, but while I see a 7? day vote timer, if something gets 100% does a new option take it's place and we have a new 7 day vote timer (with previous 2 votes left where they were aka not start fresh)? Are we limited 1 vote per day or window?"
NO - The timed votings (country upgrades and to-come CvC) end when the timer runs out and end at the same time for ALL countries. No country can skip it. It's not just fairer this way for all countries, and creates a strategic decision everyone has time to vote on (as if votes just ended and new ones would created, it would become a "spam vote fest"

. It also gives us a neat way to introduce new upgrades and balance CI in a controlled manner to make it interesting and compelling for ages! We will be running votings randomly - weekly by default, but we might increase frequency if need - or just run them randomly really if it would make sense.

The only vote that is time-sensitive and can be "accepted within a minute if enough voting power votes on it quickly" is the Air Strike. hence the council and greater weight put on it for making smart and quick decision on this one.

There is a 1 vote limit per vote window(until voting ends). Currently no change can be made, but we might consider adding a "1 change of vote per day" option, in case countries end up debating/choosing another option. especially after learning more about all the changes - as right now everyone seems to be going for the free option, which is realistically a sub-optimal decision - because most countries have ample of treasury gold just sitting there, that using it on the best "time limited upgrade choice" is most times the better option.

"4. Is the 30min "CI" window perm? If so, I am thankful for that, I was annoyed I was long since done, even if I did CI first and had to wait an hour for just that final one. For those that who would buy their next I don't think it's too short a wait for them not to bother."
Yes, 1 hour was definitely too long. It's staying, but we might consider further lowering it in the future and most likely adding an option to view an ad to unlock it immediately as well.

"5. I appreaciate that there are more gold options and that there are rewards for donating (side note thank you for giving us the spoils for all bases, even if AirStrike, though they muist have surrived that battle, like cockroaches hehe) however say to go from 0 vote power to Top 10, in the US, takes 180K Gold, and to get to my current CF from 0 takes 464,600 Gold, does that make sense? Granted, I'm "worth it" being such a long term active member. But still, 100 Gold is a day's GOLD, if lucky (I haven't actually figured out the min nor the avg in a long while, but I know it's very hard for me to climb and I only spend GOLD on "a couple" BC 90 Gold Boosts per few weeks). 100 Gold is a drop in the bucket, heck even a year's Gold (at 100 per day avg) is only 20.3% and 7.85% of the way to my current numbers."

We think it's crucial there are rewards benefiting users directly for donating, otherwise it would be basically only an act of altruism (as it used to be). We want to make donations a big part of future HQ as well to make it really engaging and interesting, but at the same time we don't want to cut out users who can't/don't donate at all. It's important the whole feature remains interesting to all, so we're balancing the two carefully. So far we're really happy with how we balanced it, and will be looking at additional balancing based on feedback and data we gather.

AirStrike used to demotiviational due to that, we don't feel it should be - so we re-added the reward. AS the skip cost now is affected by more players in country, we'll also be increasing the gold reward for completing it for countries with more users - so it's relatively fair gold reward for all countries.

Effect on CF by donating is deliberately smaller compared to effect on voting power for two reasons:
a) it can't be overpowered as otherwise we'd ruin all the balancing and experience changes we wanted to do with this rework - make everyone feel important and contributing to invasions (which requires a small maximum relative difference in strength)
b) As by donating you're basically giving your money to your country and committing to helping it we feel it makes all the sense that these users should have a bigger say in decisions the country makes - not only they donated gold, but they're likely committed to the game and seeing the country progress. Rank/experience in game is important for voting power, but if someone donates tons of gold, he/she should deserve a bigger say in how it is used.

Also, we have to monetize the game to keep supporting and developing it, and we believe this is one of the "friendliest" ways we could've done it really, on top of it opening country HQ/CvC to a lot of interesting future economic/strategic options! It hardly affects the "pay to win meter" but at the same time makes what you use the gold on really valuable in so many ways, not just pure power. People who will end up donating with that help support the game (as it is another way to spend gold) deserve not only some in-game boosts, but also recognition for the support not only of the game, but their country and country-mates as well!

"6. You scaled bases, including BTL bases up based on past week active, meaning now we can always break it, no matter how small the country's active base is? Awesome. I wonder how much vs that 10% loss you scaled it for. Cause obviously some will vote to use GOLD for an AirStrike is only a true gain of 1%, but if it just takes us 3 days instead of 1/part of 1, I'd hope we can agree amongst each others to save our GOLD (unless they themselves donate)."

Yes there is scaling indeed that makes the experience we want to convey (about "1 base per day" on average, looking longterm) possible for all countries, regardless of how many players they have. There is a slight progression intended benefit to countries with more players to entice and make sense to recruit more players to a country, but it is kept in check to keep things interesting across the board! BTL battles no longer have a 5x HP multiplier compared to regular ones, it was reduced to 3x. This means that if we ideally want countries to take 1day/regular (it will scale to that number in a week or two) base, it would take 3 days to break it normally. It HAS to take longer than a day, otherwise the Air Strike voting, buying additional chances etc. would be pointless.

„8. So, now new Chat also means no old chat as well to help everyone along with the new info? „
Thankfully it does mean that haha! But no worries, a country chat WILL remain, just in a MUCH MUCH MUCH revised and useful form. You'll be able to access it from anywhere in the game, as well as a „general chat“ people from all countries will be able to talk in. We will also be recruiting moderators soon, as well as have options to add future cool options to the chat! We can't wait to add this, hopefully we can make it work today

slosumo - Administrator
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22/06/2018 08:15

To answer the rest:

2. I think Battle 39 is still new enough, so I'm glad that we aren't competing with newbies so new they still quit in droves, but also they can still benefit from helping us out early enough in their gameplay. (Side Note: If you can make it clear to newbies/players can you tell them if they go on vacation to go to vacation mode or in 30 days of inactivity their Country HQ Rewards will be redistributed?...I don't think bought GOLD, as tempting as it is, or even free GOLD from the rest of the site, or earned Gold from Offers, but Invasion Gold should go to the estate and be divided among the family members).

We don't want users "just checking" CI affecting the cost or HP multipliers in countries, so for that we only count users who've done some invasion attempts in past week. We'll be looking into this and adjusting further if needed. Actually the rewards from a CI will not be lost even if you come out after 3 months now. You only gain it if you contributed during that day anyway, so we see no fit reason to take it away if you end up coming back. And most people, if they leave for a few days they're not coming back at all anyway. So here's no reason to spend some extra code hours on that, but just in the system to do that really. if you fight today and don't claim reward today because you go on vacation, isn't it better that you come back and see the reward added/be happy than it being taken away? it doesn't make much difference balance wise, but just don't think it'd be worth doing that anyway.

And even if we divided it to users/country there would be so little cases of this ti would be insignificant really to the country. Usually players who play CI end up staying and play the game for months.

7. I see that Top 10 donaters All Time and Last 10 (from all countries) get their recognition, which hopefully leads to competition and thus more GOLD bought to spend. Why not everyone with the same next page as "Fight Results" Btw I didn't even notice the 100 Gold = X...so I put in 1000 Gold, but didn't submit and now I see I donated 1K Gold and my voting power is 18.1...I've never donated GOLD to Country...also I don't think my GOLD went down and I don't see me listed in Top 10 (actually tied for 1st at this juncture) So, what's up with that?
We think that will definitely add recognition, spike up some competition and show to users that others are donating and that it IS worth it, and that they're not alone.

We could do "next pages", but we didn't think it's really needed, not at this point. We will see if more people would like this added we can consider adding it.

You are 36th rank * 0.5 = 18 voting power from rank. 1000 donation/100 = 10 x 0.01 => 18 + 0.1 = 18.1

You actually did donate 1000, but it was BEFORE this update - we are counting those past donations as well

They won't be seen on last donators, but we'll be fixing the code to display them on top donators today!

slosumo - Administrator
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22/06/2018 08:22

I'll explain the formula for convert rewards later today, it's not super straight forward, hence why it's not mentioned in game, as most users would just be confused about it - and to them just the reward and significance of it matters. But later today for those of you interested, I'll post the formula & logic behind it.

But put shortly - the basis for your reward is "your current cost sum of next upgrade of all already unlocked HQ upgrades". Then multiply that by 0.1 to get your base reward.

Then multiply that with log10(spoilPoints)

Then multiply that with "eligibleRewardRatio" <- which after convert using 3 fight chances should in average be 101%.

In other words, if you have 3 CF, and you used up 3 chances, you'd on average get 100 spoil points, with a 101% reward eligibility, meaning you'd get 10% of your "current sum of next HQ upgrade costs worth" of BS as the convert reward.

TC is now the "refuel" button. I wonder, do you find that super confusing as an old user who was used to the icon?

druth8x
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22/06/2018 08:55

NP, using my questions for reddit answers. That said, the 2nd question has an error in it...I meant "you changed WZ a bit as well"

Obviously lots to respond to but I'll get to most later.

A. Turns out I hadn't read reddit (save for what was linked here) since 300K members.
I found out about TC being under refuel through one post there.
I also got answer to a couple unasked questions. For instance, clicking 2x and 3x doesn't mean you autobuy, it will open up the choices. Well scratch that it opens up the whole Shop. Can this be updated in the future to only be the choices available and if you still want a MORE Shop Options button for the rest?
As far as TC being under fuel, it makes sense, now. I'm used to the 4 boxes with 2 (DR/SPW) disappearing after completion. Newbies will have no idea about TC until they get it as a reward and will have to go to FAQ or click everything (so be careful that everything is confirmation and not the same location on screen, due to double clicks).

B. Chat I understood. I was talking about there is NO chat right NOW btwn early Thursday and (possibly later today) aka when the new one goes live.

C. Is this the 101% you are talking about?
I just don't know what's best. Do I claim this today?
Do I get 70% tommorrow (or close to it)?
Do I get that 101% in 2 days?
Will I always get 35%, if I convert each day?

liberdeus
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22/06/2018 09:01

Just for trying I bought an extra CI chance. As soon as the current base was destroyed the chance terminated with 15 sec (before the upgrade I automatically went to attack the next one). I don't know yet if this is a common behavior also for the standard three chances.

slosumo - Administrator
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22/06/2018 09:40

@liberdeus, it's now intentional, bases don't change in the same attempt anymore. My answer about this to another member:

2) This is intentional for two reasons - First, if several bases were destroyed in one attempt and a lot of players were attacking simultaneously ,it could create a weird experience - where i.e. you'd see it go from battle 11 to 12, then ended attempt and cause 5 more people were attacking it would jump to battle 15 by the time you ended.
Secondly, Why that happened in the first place in old version, is because invasions were awfully balanced (health, rewards, everything was awful!) and at start a player could've completed 10s of battles in an attempt, which is not the point of the invasions experience we want to convey. They're intended as tough battles that take a whole country to complete a battle. Not one user completing 15 battles, that's what WarZone is for

So technically there's now no reason for it to work like that, as the case of someone destroying a base is super rare and no need to go to another battle. We also felt that the animation of "dropping a base" to next one, was super weird and felt artificial, so another reason for being limited to "1 base per attempt". Actually there's another reason - we ran tests and anticipations for the new balancing, but to ensure something didn't take us off surprise and countries' would shoot up through battles too quickly and ruin further experience (and risk us resetting things after update again), the 1 attack per base limit also acted as a sort of safeguard for that. But I'm happy to say we hit things pretty spot on so far, and the rest of the reasons were the most important

We will now consider if we want to adapt the code for that experience of "dropping a base" and doing i.e. 2 bases in an attempt, but personally I'm against it - feels weird to me

! Will follow feedback and see if we'd want to change it though.

druth8x
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22/06/2018 09:51

Glad you plan on relooking into Country Reward...if it's going as planned, nice for a explanation again to try and get the US to rank high again. If not, be nice it will get fixed.

1. "CF lower?": Sounds good

2. "Redistributing rewards" Andraz, skip to #3, everyone else can too. Now that I've gotten your input, I'm ok letting this go. Still, most of our Country Gold came from someone who quit but donated on the way out and one other person who we just finished their PV Ad Campaign, who if they left as it appears they did is sitting on a huge treausre trove of GOLD. But, even as I posted my question, I had removed these sources from my ask as these were bought gold, and thus never the countries to have (at best the user who got them to join/convinced them to buy, but not the whole country). And, so, yeah probably not enough inactive GOLD won via Invasion to be worth any programming. Lots of text to say that.

3. "Votes" As I figured, I learned a lot of this just it being a new day. Also, you didn't address this but for some reason, I was under the impression to vote on the other 2 required spend BS (yes BS, NOT GOLD) right then, and thus I didn't want anyone spending currency on wasted votes. Maybe another reason why most users are going for the free option? Turns out it's not only NOT BS but it's Country Gold and only if it wins. In that case nvm on my whole question as I got all my questions answered. That said, 4 or 6 AirStrikes (1/8 or 1/5 of US total treasury) is a lot of GOLD for the 2 options we have.

4. "CI timer" ooh I'd love watching an ad to not have to wait. Sometimes, I prefer to do my CI after everything (b/c I go up a lvl or b4 b/c I'm about to lose some CF due to a PvP battle. Thus, shorter or no time at all, save an ad, is a nice feature.

5. "Donating Gold Cost vs Reward" I was thinking the rewards should be slightly bigger, maybe 10x. But, if you truly feel this is to your liking go ahead. That said, right now, I don't feel it's worth it to donate, but I was hoping it would be. Though we will see in future updates/vote options if my feeling changes.

6. "Scaled Bases" Ok sounds good that it's about 1 per day etc etc. However, I feel like you don't realize that for us BTL b4 were impossible to complete (not 3 day or 3 months but impossible) so we were forced to BTL. Even regular bases took us ~1 week (so long I didn't keep track). I hope that BTL will always be able to be completed and only take 3 days to complete, as that seems reasonable.

7. "Donaters" I think it's a small thing to add in code wise but is appreaciated esp since it's not Top 10 your Country (actually just Country does exist, but still) but all, so if you can't find yourself, no real incentive, in that regard. OOH Top Past Donators shown as well, be interesting to see how much that is. And I can properly thank fellow countryfolk as well. Me donating 1K was def a mistake, but it's ok.

8. "Chat" Oh oops I misread your reply here, so my "earlier post reply regarding chat was a waste, my bad.

My 2nd post that I found out after playing a bit, 2nd day.
"Reward Spoils" Ok, I get it a bit more...I was given 81.651 spoils 1st day (I thought it said 89) and 106 today, so far/as of now.

I still have no idea on what 35% means.

Also, 1BIL, while something (and way more than the still unfixed PP to BS convert ratio) is still quite low vs how much things cost. If 1B is just b/c it's Base 1, then I reserve judgment.

druth8x
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24/06/2018 00:10

My convert options were
35 1.1B after 3
70 3.3B after 6 same day
102 almost 4B? after 6 next day
then I converted
100 3.2B after 3

IDK what the best strategy is.
Do I convert b4 6?

slosumo - Administrator
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24/06/2018 18:10

@druth

3) I see - if anything similar like that is confusing to anyone please let us know so we can consider making things clearer. Definitely a few good points here I think we'll soon address. Currently pretty much all countries have tons of stacked gold from before, that they can use for 5-10+ skips/upgrades right now. The costs have to be elusive at some point to also trigger more donations/gold spend. And really, the upgrades are worth it (especially the first CF - a 0.1 CF/player basically means an all time +10% increase, or if 0.2 CF is the first upgrade that's 20% increase of overall CF for everyone). Plus we'll also be re-looking at them in a few weeks as we made some numbers conservative for safety. If we increase them in the future, any past upgrades will apply them. So really, the best strategy here is for countries ALWAYS try and get the best upgrade.

5) What do you mean by 10x bigger rewards? That would be absurd/overpowered - especially in case of potential huge donators, which could break the balancing of the game!

7) we'll see when we can add this, not on the very top of priorities right now though. Donation could not be a mistake, you had to do it sometime in the past, there's no way it would otherwise be there

And same here, if we'll feel CF from donations is not huge enough, we'll consider increasing it.

For simplicity and not to "mess anything up" just convert after every 3 tries and you should get 100% potential (otherwise do another), it's the optimal way in most cases. We might change some things here as well in following weeks, as again the "more than 4 tries" bonuses were set conservatively.

The rewards will also grow as your CF increase (country upgrades will become a big part of this).

I.e. if with 3 CF you're getting 100 spoil points/day right now, with 6 CF you'd get 200 spoil points/day, which would convert for 15-30% more BS. At 30 CF you'd get 1k spoil points per day, which would net you 100% more BS than currently. On current numbers, plus we might increase them when we get some more data.

slosumo - Administrator
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26/06/2018 08:54

Today we've deployed several changes:

- added confirm on buy & unlock options in CHQ
- made country treasury gold rewards in NTL battles scale with amount of users a country has (same ratio as upgrade costs). This will now make it more favorable and fair to bigger countries. At the same time we increased air strike cost by 50% to balance it out - as we were keeping cost conservative until this was sorted.

Lastly, something that a lot of you will likely appreciate a lot:
Today we've also changed the way country score competition works, as the way it was so far it was confusing to most players and resulted in weird results. Now it will NOT compare total score difference of active users in a country compared to end of last week, but measure score GAINED by all players during a competition week.

Although from the perspective of balancing and showing relative strength changes we feel that the old way was more appropriate, after some additional discussions we concluded that the balancing via reward was minimal/negligible and that user clarity of a competition is more important. It will also fall in line with how other competitions work, making it much more understandable.

The change is effective immediately - we hope you like it

stark100
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16/07/2018 15:17

All my today's results are gone, and many other players' too. Something wrong with competition rankings.

druth8x
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16/07/2018 15:52

I see that you have:
2.1B Score
7e132 PP
Hungary is #2 with 1.064T
Lvl gained 0, listed right after me 669
Contractors Increase 0%, listed right after me 291

stark100
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16/07/2018 16:06

Yes, at the time i wrote i had 0. But i have already played all my TC and Invasions in the morning. And i won a PvP battle and won more than 5T. Now i see the new competitions restarted a couple hours ago? Why?

druth8x
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16/07/2018 16:45

Come to think of it I won a PVP as well, so score reset and we get some score even we don't do anything in WZ? Also, I should have closer to 92 (not 26) PP.

OK. Thanks for noticing and posting here, but reddit and/or support is better way to get in touch.

BTW, by my calculation the reset occurred close to 5hrs ago.

stark100
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16/07/2018 16:48

Yes, you had more than 3T when i checked in the morning. All players have been reset. I don't know why.

slosumo - Administrator
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17/07/2018 06:03

@stark Thank you for this report - there indeed was an issue. I was testing separate Cron handling for Kongregate, and it appears one of the functions didn't properly "make the switch to the Kong database" (everythign else was switched properly, but I noticed now that one thing was hardcoded

), so reset some of the stats the game takes first thing on Monday, which caused the reset.

Unfortunately we have no way to revert this, so for that I'd like to apologize for missing that thing. But thanks for pointing it out as it lets me know of another area I have to double check!

slosumo - Administrator
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20/07/2018 11:07

read about our latest updates:

https://www.reddit.com/r/warclicks/comments/90evgm/newest_game_updates/

druth8x
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20/07/2018 12:40

The reset looks like it will mean the difference of a Top 10 or just outside Top 10 finish and thus 1% difference in reward of score.

Also, 117K damage wasted on a already decided BTL.
Can we please have the option to vote early and thus not waste any damage?
Alternatively, while not real world correct, whatever damage is what gets moved to the next bsse.

What renown rewards are you talking about? NOT WZ achievements. Are you talking about Convert PP to BS? I wonder what you chose. I want 10x what the first ratio says. It's been 200MIL+/100MIL+ for months but in reality 40MIL+/20MIL+. 2B/1B would make it more realistic to be worth converting. If you are talking about Daily Task rewards, then having convert in them might not be so bad. As is, the rewards there aren't much save Double PP nor is convert PP to BS enough so I often skip converting and thus am slightly annoyed you must convert PP to BS so many days a week.

Also, too many blue moons where the Daily Mission is either the same or 2 that aren't possible. Annoying not having a realistic shot at ~20 GOLD all too often. I only have a shot for lvl up but once, maybe twice (the reset hit me here as currently I'd be 863) in a week no chance at 50 or 100 units.

I can't remember but can you please not consider how big the country treasury is when determining costs, or at least only a small amount? Players randomly give us GOLD, so while it may seem we are flush, larger costs could easily drain us faster than those countries who maintain a low treasury.

Can we please have a way to besides chat to argue on behalf of the council as to why we vote a certain way? There is a blank space that the Country Leader could use to post a statement. And/Or, we could color code the 3 choices and what each council member chose (vote would be public).

I think the chat still has some this contains a link issue and it is still buggy as to not posting visibly until a refresh to the user who posted. Also, I swear that some posts don't show on my end of others as when I scroll from the top to bottom I catch messages I hadn't yet read. We aren't that chatty and I am active enough to read everything soon after.

Thanks for and for continously improving the game. It does seem as if many bugs go away w/o even an update post and it's hard for me to confirm/remember them and then post saying my appreaciation of the improvement.

slosumo - Administrator
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20/07/2018 13:02

HMm what exactly do you mean by reset?

Early voting on Boss presents a few implementation issues along with "understanding issues" maybe for users. Not sure, we'll think about it when we got other pressing matters out in a few weeks.

Renown rewards - are goals you achieve in BootCamp as you reach certain total PP goals.

The other progression/reward improvements we'll do after Kong as mentioned several times.

US has AMPLE gold available, relatively to members it's currently a country that can most easily afford upgrades. We don't see ANY reason right now to change the way that works right now, as it IS in favor of bigger countries.

Idea for note/debate on votes is something interesting we might consider adding indeed. Seen this a few times before and when we can find some time to get to that we'll definitely improve it. Along with any confusion along the gold upgrades (many people think ti goes off their account so they don't vote for it).

Chat is a bit buggy still yes, we just haven't found the time to properly get rid of the final kinks yet. A lot of these issues will all be sorted in the following weeks when we will be focusing on them

We post pretty much all of our bugfixes in reddit/blog regularly - but I havne't always posted a link here. Will try to do that from now on. Sometimes we maybe miss a mention of something but it's more of an exception for that to happen. So just follow reddit/blog for keeping up to date with everything

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