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Changes to BAP taxation ideas

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slosumo - Administrator
Traffic Value: $28,438.4426 Slovenia
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22/07/2017 10:00
As we are currently pursuing a PV rework focused on its main issues/improvements, there is still a topic we will be discussing on the go to see if we can come up with an acceptable "ideal idea" to make BAP taxation more user friendly and make it feel less forced/repelling to new users.

Please note that some form of BAP taxation IS crucial to PaidVerts' model, as it counterbalances the free BAP given out, "enforces activity" and cleans up inactivity automatically. Without it earning potential to free members would have to be far far more limited.

But fact is that the way it is currently handled is NOT the ideal user experience, and it is something we might want to rework in this update if we can come up with an "ideal solution".

So, although we've heard 10s of ideas over the years and have a bunch of our own, they all have their own drawbacks and issues that don't make then "ideal" to implement. And as we will be thinking about reworking it further, we're happy to hear any of your ideas to changing the BAP taxation and see if we can with your help find out something that will be better than what we currently have.

I have to apologize in advance that I will almost surely not reply here a lot to "every single reply", as there's a high chance we've been over most ideas in some way or form already. So while we're mainly looking for something fresh here, please don't feel discouraged to post something that's been posted before, it can't hurt smile

Looking forward to any submissions/new thoughts here - and if possible, please try to think about pros/cons of your idea thoroughly while posting and note any clearly. What makes it so special, why should we consider it?

Thanks to any posters in advance smile

Traffic Value: $1,274.48527 Romania
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22/07/2017 10:12
Got some thoughts about this.Give less (half) to users in bigger groups.They probably wont care.Make more ads for the activation in lower groups,that way you can sell more slots for the bap traffic ads and reduce debt even more.If a smaller user (lower group) makes a task or complete an offer per day,do not take them the bap tax (optional).
Traffic Value: $24.77523 Pakistan
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22/07/2017 10:49
The BAPs Acquired by purchasing Bulk adpacks should be tax exempted however the free BAPs by clicking adds may be countinues like before.
slosumo - Administrator
Traffic Value: $28,438.4426 Slovenia
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22/07/2017 12:16
Thanks for the first suggestions - I just want to quickly feedback on them, as it might give others a bit more idea of how broad you should think about making changes to the BAP tax, and that there's so many things you have to consider when thinking of an "ideal solution":

The two ideas "contradict" each other - first one gives a better result for small users and "punishes" big users. Whereas the other ones does the opposite. So that's very interesting to see as you guys think about the solution completely differently. And just goes to show that there's "not just one way to think about it".

Additionally, very specific conditions to tax exemption (like completing offerwalls) can be a nightmare to implement easily, as BAP ads are distributed via a cron, and any additional DB checks (even if simple) can add up to a lot of extra resource usage (and ofc man hours to implement some "simple" condition in a workable way in the first place).

Also there are various ways you can "rephrase/recreate" the two ideas:

If we want completing offerwalls to have an affect on how much "BAP you get for free" the same effect can much more easily be incorporated into the upcoming "BAP activity rewards" - whereas completing BAP rewards will give you additional daily BAP, and also feel more as a reward "than avoiding BAP tax", which is usually the preferred goal of user experience.
I suggest to read the PV rework rough specs to see what's being implemented there and if it's already complementing/using your potential idea there:

The next very important thing to consider is - MOST of the free BAP given out is to the small users. Therefore, increasing their BAP giveaway would work against BAP reduction. Similarly, focusing BAP reduction on the bigger users, will hardly result in any BAP reduction increase, as proportionately there are so little of "big users", that taking more from them would hardly have an increase on BAP reduction.

That being said, any idea (even not broadly though about) is welcome here, but I hope this example gives you all a bit more idea of the "scope" you have to think about here smile
Traffic Value: $15,993.01608 Canada
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22/07/2017 12:54
This isn't about taxation but it is more about BAP spending and advertising reach which we can take beyond this site. I'm thinking of a paid to promote page (or two actually)

The first would be a classic page like the one Donkey Mails uses where you have advertising all over the page. Banners and a member page rotates in the centre. Since BAPs are so low cost we could give out one BAP for each page view. So the page would look like this:

The second idea would be a splash page with banners on it similar to this:

The difference would be that you can probably fit 6 banners into the prime viewing space (the space that everyone sees the minute they click on the page ie. the most valuable 'real estate' on the page since most people know in four seconds if they like our page)

6 would still not be too many to make too much advertising 'noise' and it would increase the BAP burn rate.

You can make this banner option a rider on BAP purchases or a separate purchase in case it doesn't work long term. I think you should also put the stats of clicks and views on the splash page for both the advertiser and the potential advertiser (to show the effective benefit for the viewer for advertising there and the benefit of clicking the ad and using that banner).

So the benefit to the affiliate for showing that page is one BAP(which can be adjustable depending on results). The cost to an advertiser is one BAP per impression. So the site would be burning through up to 5 BAP every time the splash page is shown.

As a benefit to the site, if no sales are made, you can put MTV banners for our products in the default rotation so as to promote out products.
gugakip - Forum moderator
Traffic Value: $739.34329 Belgium
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22/07/2017 15:51
What if we would remove the tax for every active account, but lower the free BAP by 100. After 21 days the fee kicks in like now (or maybe you can make that an increasing fee after a longer inactivity). 

The BAP ads would give 8x10 and login 20 BAP for example. In the end it's the same for everyone I think. I know 10 BAP for every ad is not a lot, but in fact it stays the same for almost everyone. I think the only persons who would feel it, are those who buy adpacks to be "taxfree", so this option might lower the adpacks sold. 
However, I think this can be overcome by some achievements like mentioned in the news thread. Buying adpacks could give some more BAP for every ad for example.
Traffic Value: $249.68549 South Africa
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22/07/2017 16:30
Yes, reduce the Free BAP to 100 and to avoid getting the BAP tax, you have to view at least 2 (or more?) normal ads per day. 

Just viewing BAP ads is not enough. This forces users to view ads, thus increasing the value to advertisers. 

We can even take it further. To be able to get Free BAP you first have to view a certain amount of Paid Ads. (This would mean having paid ads on weekends too). 

Think of this as similar to the Neobux model of rented referrals. You only benefit from your referrals by viewing at least 4 ads.
Traffic Value: $28.3459 Brazil
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22/07/2017 17:02
Just something to add on Dguy's idea: you could create a daily achievement to spend something around 200 baps or more in those impressions to not pay the fee for 1 day.

The same for games, "Play 10 times one of our Games with a total wager of more than 1000 points" to get the daily tax removed for 1 day => The house edge cover a part of the loss and you can still attract members to play more often.

Also offer a viewing ads daily achievement, watch more than 10 cash ads and only pay 85% of the fee, 20 cash ads - 70%, 50 cash ads - 50%, 100 cash ads  - 30% and 200 cash ads or more - You don't pay any fee => If there is enough people willing to watch this much ads every day, you can sell a lot of "PTC Packs" with low prices.
Traffic Value: $73,032.40453 Netherlands
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22/07/2017 17:03
Issue the ads to all BAP-holders, not just the active ones.

This could motivate not active BAP-holders to start being active again.
And if they don't, then those ads will go to the recycling, so the active clickers will get these ads anyway. And the recycling-system will get a boost also.
Traffic Value: $28.3459 Brazil
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22/07/2017 17:14

If i understand it correctly -that you want to issue cash ads to inactive users- , you are proposing burning (probably much, depending on the ads the person get) bap of people that don't know about it and think they are only losing 100 bap? This isn't a way to encourage them to come back, this is a way to encourage them to clean their accounts and leave as soon as they notice it. whistlingblink

Wouldn't it be more easy to increase the bap burned on these accounts based on the time they are inactive (1 month inactive doubles the tax, 2 months triple it...)?
Traffic Value: $15,993.01608 Canada
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22/07/2017 17:16
That's a fantastic idea hoppa. You could eliminate the tax altogether with that I think since it serves the same purpose. And the original intent of the recycling was to get ads recycled many times so that BAP would be reduced each time
Traffic Value: $15,993.01608 Canada
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22/07/2017 17:24
I think if we give proper notification and in terms of service then that is fair carvalho. If pushed we could give a reactivation bonus or Admin could give a special bonus to those who come back and write a support ticket to complain. We could also give it as a reactivation bonus for those who come back and qualify under activity

That also might be a way to keep people active. Every 90 days or so send an email stating that they have become inactive and that they have x amount of BAP in their account worth X amount of dollars (or paid ads would probably be more accurate). If they want to reactivate them and not lose the bonus then return to active member status in the site (which would lead them to activity bonuses to re-qualify)
Traffic Value: $520.60691 United States
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22/07/2017 20:20
Have read what Marc has posted and what you all posted here i think between the boards there is some great ideas floating around on how to bring PV back to life and make it the system everyone wants to clone again. But this time with real money as the bases not pie in the sky money that killed it the first time.
Traffic Value: $22,417.44153 United States
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22/07/2017 22:16
Just a few stats, maybe Andraz can give us more about how much BAP TAX comes from free members/newbies.

~42K Active Accounts
~21K Unique Users Clicking

I think the biggest thing about TAX is just explain why it exists and with all the new activity extra BAP rewards, as long as we make sure even newbies understand that they can more than offset the tax by doing such and such then there should be no reason to modify it.
BTW, at 100 BAP that's $0.05.
Why is CASH TAX so small in comparison? $0.001 could be made to be $0.015 and we'd have our Group Ad Issues paid for. OFC, at $0.015, the lowest lvl members are barely making that currently and that would be more than the freeies/Group 0 are making.
Still, we tax them "5c", as long as they have 100 BAP in their account.
I don't think it's b/c too many people would hide their cash fom being taxed whereeas BAP can't be hidden.
I guess, I figured it out, we give out more than 100 free BAP, so it's not a tax per say, as long as you work, you get that back plus we give out more. It's not a debt that you can't earn back with a bit of activity. Whereas cash tax can't be recouped.

Which leads me to, what about increasing the cash tax, but you can avoid it if you do X amount of offers and/or buy non BAP ads? AKA any of those activities create way more revenue for the site than taxing the user, and the user also gets more b/c they are incetivised to partcipate.
Traffic Value: $489.01092 Netherlands
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30/07/2017 11:38
- In the weekend there are no ads so stop giving free bap ads on saturday and sunday 

- decrease the amounts of bap ads from 25 to 20 each.

- no bap ads for example users level 3 and up / and start using the bap ads to advertise more of our own products as most people that will then receive bap ads will be newbies
Traffic Value: $22,417.44153 United States
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30/07/2017 18:52
The amount of BAP in BAP ads are being reworked to be fully paid for by the site.
 You can read a recent news for more detail.

Having BAP Ads on the weekend helps with site ranking plus banner views.

BAP ad slots are being sold to advertisers, so while small atm, changing that to our products makes little sense.

We can always just send a bit of our overdelivery (aka just make a couple of our 22 Group Ads, be directed to our products). Besides, let members advertise and get newbie ref income.

This thread is about BAP taxation, NOT BAP ads.
Forum - Brainstorm - Changes to BAP taxation ideas
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